Posted by Strictly Skewed at 199.199.216.61 on January 23, 2004 at 15:15:10:
In Reply to: Okay... posted by Championship_Vinyl on January 23, 2004 at 14:47:43:
:
: : Physically? They sent an 80-year old man.
: Yes, as a "hey-we're-NASA-and-we're-underfunded-so-check-this-out" publicity stunt. The old fella in question was also not actually a participant in the day-to-day workings of the flight, but the focus of a scientific study aboard... not to mention the fact that he was an astronaut in his younger days, and therefore somewhat more capable than everyday 80-year-olds.
: : Mentally? They sent some rich guy who paid for it.
: He, too, was simply a passenger. He had none of the detailed knowledge the rest of the certified astronauts aboard had.
The point here is, to be an astronaut takes neither great physical ability nor mental ability. Yes, the astronauts they choose now tend to be in good physical condition and tend to be very intelligent. Neither one of these makes them heroes.
: : Emotionally? Okay, now we start to come to it.
: Exactly. Spend a few weeks in cramped quarters on a space station and see if it emotionally scars you for the remainder of you life. Without proper training and a genetic affinity toward emotional stability, you'll crack.
Now, wait a minute. Very few astronauts do spend time in a space station, most of them go up for a few days. Astronauts on the space station are an entirely different story.
: : Is it safe? No. Is is very dangerous? No.
: How is it NOT dangerous? You launch into an unbreathable environment using hundreds of tons of highly explosive material in a machine with more moving parts than all of the automobiles made by Chrylser in a year combined. Then you fly around at thousands of miles per hour before returning with zero control through an atmosphere of tens of thousands of degrees.
: It's dangerous getting there, while you're there and coming back.
So what? How dangerous is it to sail across the ocean? Now, not very. A few hundred years ago? MUCH more dangerous than what astronauts face now. That's my point, we go TOO far in trying to make these things safe. The point is still, the danger they face is completely disproportionate to the hero worship they enjoy.
:And for most astronauts who have experienced space travel, it's dangerous a decade or two after they return and the effects of what they've done start to take a toll on their bodies.
Okay, this I don't know much about. Where might I see info about this?
: : Why crazy? There are lots of jobs that are similarly dangerous. Look at the injury/death rates of policemen, firefighters, soldiers, etc. And yet we make *so* much about astronauts.
: I meant crazy-brave as one sloppy word. Super-brave. Better?
: Also, I never once slighted any of those occupations, nor so much as insinuated that they weren't just as dangerous.
Who said you did?
: : I would give *both* my nuts for the opportunity to go up into space, under *much* less safe conditions.
: Then you're crazy in the literal sense of the word, and not my previous sloppily-constructed one.
Nice... very adult. There are millions more like me, so I think it might be hard to call me crazy, just different than you. Or is that the same thing?
: : Do you realize how competitive it is to be an astronaut? Why is that? Are there that many crazy-brave motherfuckers out there? No.
: No, there aren't that many... exactly why 98% of those involved in such heated competition to be accepted into austronaut training are eliminated from consideration.
So, what are you saying, that 98% of the people that apply really just want to chicken out?
: : Are astronauts doing what they do for society's sake, the way policemen and such do?
: Yes, they are. As much as anti-NASA politicians would like the public to believe, the "silly" things they do benefit everyone. I'm not expert, but from the seeminly unbiased things I've read about what astronauts do, most of it is pure scientific research that cannot as easily be done on earth, on everything from Alzheimers disease to making a more efficient combustion engine.
I never said that the missions don't accomplish anything, my point was that the astronauts are doing it out of selfish reasons.
However, even in terms of their 'accomplishments', the money could be much better spent here on earth. There are research avenues that promise much better results for that much money spent. Just because the research can only be done in space does not justify doing the research. The only worthwhile thing that NASA does is to have a space program at all. The experiments that they do are just P.R. to try to justify their existence, regardless of the results. It's more of a 'since we're going up anyway, we might as well do some experiments'.
: And how are policemen and women not involved in their line of work for personal reasons as well? This is America, and sadly, we all gotsta eat.
Yes, they get paid. Just like astronauts (of course, not as much). But they go into the profession knowing they will be exposing themselves to danger, and accepting that, not for money, but because they want to perform a service.
: : Some, although for most of them it's for personal reasons, like mine.
: I don't get it. Have you tried to be an astronaut and it didn't work out? If so, stop being bitter about it.
No, I didn't.
: : Don't get me wrong, the first astronauts were heroic. But then again, the risks they took were much greater, and the purpose they fulfilled was much more important. Also, I think the current batch of astronauts are capable and willing to meet this challenge, but we as a society do not seem to be.
: I'm not sure that I get this either. What statement are you trying to make, that we don't always pick our heroes wisely? No argument from me.
No, I'm saying that we get entirely too worked up when astronauts die. Especially considering how quickly we forget the sacrifices others make.
: My only point was to argue that, personally, I feel astronauts *are* deserving of that title.
Yeah, I got that.