Posted by Championship_Vinyl at l1.wpalaw.org on January 23, 2004 at 16:41:46:
In Reply to: Starting to come to consensus posted by Strictly Skewed on January 23, 2004 at 16:03:59:
: Yes, but you see, you're making my point. We need astronauts to do more to take on more risk. We have to be willing to take the losses for the sake of advancement.
I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't think deliberately making them perform under less safe conditions is reasonable. It would be like anything else in life - someone gets killed, and their families and friends clamor that they weren't adequately protected, and whatever governing body steps in to make changes to safety guidelines. Knowingly allowing people to partake in intentionally unsafe practices is borderline criminal, and NASA has to do everything they can to make them as safe as possible. No matter how much space travel has advanced in the last 40 years, NASA just can't suddenly become lax and subscribe to the "you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs" philosophy without a fight.
The problem is that it's much more expensive to fix broken space shuttles than it is for GM to recall every jeep in the American military for defects in their seatbelts.
: Depends on what you mean by ability. What they look for now is very different than what they looked for forty years ago. Again though, this argues towards their uniqueness for the task, not their heroism.
My only point was that very few people have the ability to be one, and that makes them "larger than life" to me. But you're right - that says nothing about the pure "heroism" of the task.
: I have to disagree. The whole definition of hero has to do with doing something as a service for someone else. And by the way, by 'self-interest' I'm not just talking glory. For example, the reason I would like to go into space has nothing to do with glory, but just for the experience, which is what I think most astronauts (the current crop, anyway) are in it for.
Then our entire disagreement is based on the fact that we define heroes differently. I see heroes as people who set off on much more incredible tasks than I ever could, regardless of whether or not it is in the interest of the greater good. I don't know, maybe you're right, and I'm adding the "romanticism" aspect in and calling it "heroism."
Although, we're on the same page here as far as how easily the word is thrown around. I can't stand it when they're harped on for being heroes after dying. It just seems to be such a left-handed compliment, and far too widespread these days.
And again, when you said you'd go into space, I used the "you're crazy" comment jokingly as if to say, "I want nothing to do with that, because it seems way too scary for me."
: I think it's neat too, and as a member of society, I'm willing for those dollars to be spent, but my point was that the research they conduct on the Shuttle is not a justification for continuing the program.
Oh, I know. Just because you and I think it's neat is no reason to piss billions of dollars away. Although I think both sides of the "is NASA really necessary" argument have merit. Most of the experiments that are done *do* benefit everyone, regardless of whether or not that good was only to say the astronauts ran experiments.
: Except, how many of them are labeled 'heroes' before dying in the line of duty, the way astronauts are. Going into these professions hoping to be labeled hero is stupid, since it happens to so few. Not that I'm disagreeing that some do this exact thing.
I know what you mean. But like I mentioned before, there's a certain romanticism to being an astronaut, and that has a lot to do with piling the 'hero' label on top of it.
Utimately, I tend to think the occupation itself is heroic, simply because it's something that is far beyond what I could ever envision myself doing. I could probably go take the tests and physical exams and become a cop or a firefighter; the odds are against me ever being an astronaut. I might as well play the lottery.
But, like I said, I'm sure the romantic aspect of it taints my idea of it to some degree.