Let's use Dogma as an example...

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Posted by Isis at 132.236.35.61 on June 14, 2001 at 14:49:01:

In Reply to: GRAND statements? examples please... posted by Pickle on June 14, 2001 at 14:16:13:

Okay, in Dogma the subject matter is God and religion, heavy shit, right? And throughout that movie concepts are brought up that are quite grand, but they're de-empasized. The abortion issue gets brought up but then dismissed with a quick punchline ("Noah was a drunk" -- as though alcohol abuse and abortion are considered similar sins in Catholicism. I don't really care, but I doubt the Pope would agree.) Euthanasia's hinted at but not explored. The contradiction between the representation of God as both a jealous war-maker (shown through the Angel of Death character) and a benevolent, all-loving deity is pointed out but then never developed. The theme of the movie seems to be "figure it out for yourself", but if that's the case, why does it focus only on Christian theology, and not any OTHER religious or non-religious theories on how the universe works? If you're claiming that God exists, that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and so forth, you've already removed some of that option from the audience. Why push that liberal figure it out message when the framework already limits what there is to figure out?

The arguably controversial comments that are played up in Dogma are those that have already been repeatedly discussed by other artists and academics -- Jesus was black, God's a woman, Mary had other kids...

That's a small example of what I'm trying to express. In Dogma, it's pointed out that Mary had other children besides Jesus -- controversial, and if my understanding is correct it defies the official Catholic party line on that subject. BUT Dogma still supports the concept of the Virgin Birth. All the films push right to the point of acceptability, but the controversy they present has already been covered elsewhere, someone else has usually taken the flak for saying most of that stuff. And all of the films have the option of pushing past that point, but they all hold back.

-- i
know what you di-diddily-did last summer

: jeez. I need to stop drinking.
:
: : Whatever it is, the films all seem to shift back and forth between grand statements and sweeping gestures, to small, unassuming comic-style actions.

Follow Ups:

Wrong B. Buster 15:35:53 6/14/01 (15)
- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Darth Dobbin 18:10:56 6/14/01 (12)
  - Do I have to quote chapter and verse? B. Buster 21:37:57 6/14/01 (1)
    - It ain't my belief, and I'm not arguing its... Darth Dobbin 10:11:30 6/15/01 (0)
  - And that's according to catholic dogma, not the... Darth Dobbin 18:28:44 6/14/01 (9)
    - No one will read this, but this is the difference. bass2496 14:17:04 6/15/01 (6)
      - I read it... Johnboy 14:20:58 6/15/01 (5)
        
        Regarding Doctrines vs. Dogma... Isis 15:32:45 6/15/01 (4)
        
        Re: Regarding Doctrines vs. Dogma... bass2496 00:27:07 6/17/01 (0)
        
        Doesn't this belong under Bass' post above? Johnboy 15:59:16 6/15/01 (2)
        
        Oh my sweet Lord in heaven...the Church of WAP! Isis 16:13:25 6/15/01 (1)
        
        Stands for 'Worship Any Penis' Johnboy 16:44:22 6/15/01 (0)
    - Let's distinguish between Catholic and Christian.. Johnboy 19:22:20 6/14/01 (1)
      - I stated pretty clearly that it was the Catholic.. Darth Dobbin 12:01:04 6/15/01 (0)
- That's why I said "IF my understanding is correct" Isis 16:15:54 6/14/01 (1)
  - Well... Smalls 16:19:57 6/14/01 (0)
Re: Let's use Dogma as an example... Pickle 15:21:54 6/14/01 (0)

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: Okay, in Dogma the subject matter is God and religion, heavy shit, right? And throughout that movie concepts are brought up that are quite grand, but they're de-empasized. The abortion issue gets brought up but then dismissed with a quick punchline ("Noah was a drunk" -- as though alcohol abuse and abortion are considered similar sins in Catholicism. I don't really care, but I doubt the Pope would agree.) Euthanasia's hinted at but not explored. The contradiction between the representation of God as both a jealous war-maker (shown through the Angel of Death character) and a benevolent, all-loving deity is pointed out but then never developed. The theme of the movie seems to be "figure it out for yourself", but if that's the case, why does it focus only on Christian theology, and not any OTHER religious or non-religious theories on how the universe works? If you're claiming that God exists, that Jesus was indeed the Messiah and so forth, you've already removed some of that option from the audience. Why push that liberal figure it out message when the framework already limits what there is to figure out? : The arguably controversial comments that are played up in Dogma are those that have already been repeatedly discussed by other artists and academics -- Jesus was black, God's a woman, Mary had other kids... : That's a small example of what I'm trying to express. In Dogma, it's pointed out that Mary had other children besides Jesus -- controversial, and if my understanding is correct it defies the official Catholic party line on that subject. BUT Dogma still supports the concept of the Virgin Birth. All the films push right to the point of acceptability, but the controversy they present has already been covered elsewhere, someone else has usually taken the flak for saying most of that stuff. And all of the films have the option of pushing past that point, but they all hold back. : -- i : know what you di-diddily-did last summer : : jeez. I need to stop drinking. : : : : : Whatever it is, the films all seem to shift back and forth between grand statements and sweeping gestures, to small, unassuming comic-style actions.

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